Matter of Life in Def
by Alan di Perna
Guitar School
November 1992
Guitar School: When did you first realize that Def Leppard was interested in you as their new guitarist?
Vivian: Well, after Steve Clark died, it was pretty obvious that they were going to have to continue with another guitar player. I've known Joe Elliott for a few years. He lives in Ireland, and I'd see him every time I went back there. He mentioned that he would like to suggest me to the other guys. In February of this year, when the band arrived in L.A., Joe called me up and said they were going to try playing with me and a few other people. It wasn't a real formal audition situation. I mean, it was an audition but they knew I could play guitar. What they didn't know was whether I could sing, which was important to them. But the most important thing was that they didn't really know enough about my personality.
Guitar School: Do you remember what you played?
Vivian: We played "Animal," "Gods of War," and "Pour Some Sugar on Me." Then we tried to jam on a few covers, but they're not really a good cover band. [laughs] Mainly, we sat there, drank tea and talked. They were a little bit concerned that I'd been in so many bands. We actually spent more time talking than playing. And we worked it out.
Guitar School: Does it bother you to be perceived as a "hired gun"?
Vivian: It can be irritating. But I know why I did the things I did in my career. You see, no matter how journalists or fans would like to perceive bands like Whitesnake or Dio, it's always David Coverdale and band, or Ronnie Dio and band. No matter how much you contribute musically, it's always going to be that way. It makes for a very empty feeling, always being on the outside like that-even if they pay you a ton of cash. When I first joined Dio, I was naive enough to believe that most bands worked on the level I was used to from my first band, Sweet Savage, which was a band I formed when I was 16. I was with them for 3-1/2 years. We were all friends, we grew up together, and if we'd been successful, I'd still be with them. With Dio, I was naive enough to believe that since I was writing a lot of music for the band-I was one of the main writers-that after a while Ronnie and I would get close. I thought that after a year or two we'd kind of get to know each other-even though we were strangers, he's older than me, and he's American and I was a green kid from Belfast. I thought we'd be there for each other. But it never worked out to be that way. It was always Ronnie and the band. Always this huge gap-especially between him and me. I really felt cheated. Financially, I was totally ripped off. And the more verbal I'd become about it, the more hostility I'd have to endure. Eventually, I got fired. And then the Whitesnake situation came along. When we first got together, everyone was kind of at a low ebb. I'd just gotten fired from Dio. A lot of equipment companies that were endorsing me all of a sudden didn't want to know me- they figured it was the end of my career. Whitesnake wasn't by any means a success in the States at the time. Everyone was really in need of everyone else, which means everyone was really nice, because everyone had just come off "planet rock-star." And I must say David was generous financially. I probably made more money in three months with Whitesnake than I made in three years with Dio.
It was a good band and everything worked pretty well for a while. But when the success and money came, it started becoming very political, I was on the outside. I really didn't have a lot in common with David. We just weren't buddies. We didn't hang and go to the movies and go to dinner. But he and Adrian did. And Adrian and I had a real problem. Or Adrian had a real problem-he didn't want to play with another guitar player. Any other guitar player. It wasn't just me. But David was adamant that Whitesnake was going to be a two-guitar band. Unfortunately, I bore the brunt of the hostility. I'd write songs and give demos to David, and get stonewalled. I'd just get no reply. I finally coaxed it out of David that, "Well, Adrian and I are close. We've written a lot of songs together and we're just going to write all the songs for the record."
Then when we did what was to become Slip of the Tongue, I strongly felt that Adrian was using his position of power with David to edge me out of the band. I felt very unwanted. Anything that was there at the beginning had totally dissipated. So I talked to David, and we concluded it would be best for me to leave.
Basically, success changed everything in that band. It has a way of doing that to people. That's what's refreshing about Def Leppard. Whitesnake's success totally pales in comparison to Def Leppard's, but if anything, Leppard's become closer as a band. That was demonstrated by the fact that they kept Rick Allen when he lost an arm. Any other band would've given him a check for a million, and told him to take a walk. But the Leppards really are a family. That's why I know this will be my last band.
Guitar School: Do you guys have a lot of musical influences in common?
Vivian: There's a funny story about that. Joe and I recently did an interview in France. I went in first and the guy said to me, "What was the first thing that made you want to play guitar?" And I said that I wanted to be a soccer player until I was 9 or 10 years old, and then I saw Marc Bolan on a show called "Top of the Pops." Joe came in about 10 minutes later, they asked him the same question, and he gave the exact same answer. So yeah, you could say we have similar influences.
Guitar School: Were you a real glam kid?
Vivian: I was only 10 when I first saw Marc Bolan and I just said, "Wow!" First off, I loved the songs: "Telegram Sam," Bang A Gong," all that stuff. And I just loved the idea of the guitar. He used to play a Les Paul down around his knees. And the hair! Yeah, I wanted to wear my sister's clothing! From there, my influences went their own way. When I was in my teens I started listening to Rory Gallagher, Thin Lizzy and Gary Moore. I was heavily focused on guitar players for many years. When I started playing professionally with Dio, I became less focused on listening only to guitar players and really started to appreciate music in general. I even like country music nowadays. There's very little out there for which I don't have some kind of appreciation. But I'm mainly into pop music. I don't mean Right Said Fred or anything like that. I mean pop in the purest form, like the Beatles or Squeeze or the Rembrandts or Crowded House. And I love soul music: Aretha Franklin, Motown, and Stax. My appreciation for guitar players has actually gone backwards. I now prefer the older guitar players, like early Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Dave Gilmour, Paul Kossoff and Jeff Beck.
Guitar School: Why is that?
Vivian: Because there's a lot more personality there, a lot more style. They're individuals, unlike a lot of modern players. The technical side of guitar playing has grown light years: there's a lot more new equipment, new techniques and new methods of teaching, so people learn how to play better, younger. But it doesn't necessarily help them carve out any kind of personality, or make any kind of statement. What often passes for good guitar playing nowadays is a little bit questionable, I think.
Guitar School: You see a lot of young players who learn how to play very quickly right away, but must go back and learn how to play with rhythm and style.
Vivian: That's it exactly: a backwards kind of thing. Rhythm guitar is very important. Eddie Van Halen is a great guitar player not only because he's a great soloist, but because he's a hell of a rhythm guitar player. He has a big chunky sound, great dynamics and great timing with his right hand. I pride myself on being a great rhythm guitar player, too. I know I'm not anywhere near the world's top 100 soloists. I tend to go for phrasing in solos. I'm not afraid to leave gaps anymore. Look at a player like the Edge. I'm a big U2 fan. Coming from Ireland, I remember seeing U2 when they played bars and stuff. At that time I was totally stuck in the "if he can't play a solo he's crap" mentality. But my thinking has come full circle. You've got 22 or 24 frets and six strings, so with all the different sound colorations you can get, there's a lot more that can be done besides whizzing through a bunch of scales. I used to live for guitar when I was a teenager, but nowadays I find it very hard to be inspired by guitar music. I'd much rather listen to a good singer. Out of the old school of guitar players, Jeff Beck is probably the only one who's still pushing the frontiers. He ignores the traditionalist approach and does his own thing. He's slippery, you know? Like a snake or an eel or something you can't hold on to. He's very fluid, and obviously very spontaneous. He's not a formulated or calculated player, which is great. He sounds a lot more modern than most teenage guitar players.
Guitar School: How have you approached learning Steve Clark's guitar parts for the live shows?
Vivian: If you've ever listened to Def Leppard with headphones on, you know there's a lot of guitar parts. I call Phil every couple of days and say, "I'm hearing six guitar parts here. Which one do I learn?" What we basically do is take the most prominent parts from the records, and condense them down to two guitar parts. As for Steve's solos, I've decided that if something he did is very thematic and melodic, I should emulate it note for note. Like his solo on "Armageddon It," for instance. I don't think anyone would want to hear anything but that solo. There's a few other songs, Like "Too Late" from Pyromania, where I pick out certain parts of Steve's solo and do them because they stood out to me. And for the rest, I just solo in E. Phil is definitely the solo guitar player in the band. He always played the most solos. He's a much better soloist than me. He's got alternate-picking down to where he can really blaze over fast-temp songs, because I play more legato style. Therefore, I prefer to solo on ballads, mid-temp songs and things like that. So, it's a good situation. Phil and I are very different players, although there are a few Gary Moore licks we both do.
Guitar School: Have you recorded with the band yet?
Vivian: Yes. We did some B-sides at Joe's studio in Dublin-mostly acoustic stuff. People say it takes Def Leppard four years to make an album, but it only takes four hours to make a B-side. We slam the stuff down. There's a cover of a song called "Action," by Sweet. And the acoustic songs are really different for Def Leppard, including some stuff we did with the Hothouse Flowers with tin whistles and mandolin. It'll be quite a surprise.
Guitar School: Are there any special challenges to playing with Def Leppard, as opposed to any of the other bands you've been in?
Vivian: None. It's easy! The most intense thing will be the writing, because they're a very methodical band. The way they rehearse is much more intense than in any band I've ever worked with before. They take what they do very seriously. But I think I'll be able to contribute. The whole situation is very comfortable. I love the people in the band, and I love the music, I've been a Def Leppard fan since '79. I bought their first EP, before they even signed to a major label. As a musician, I appreciate the way they've evolved. They've become great songwriters, and they managed to create a great contemporary hybrid of hard rock and melodic pop music. That's what helped them sell 15 million albums. And because my own musical tastes have evolved from being a narrow minded guitar bigot to being a guy who appreciates all kinds of music, I can appreciate them.
Guitar School: So you didn't hesitate when they asked you to join?
Vivian: Actually, when I got the call from Joe in February, I was weeks away from starting my own record. I had a band together, I had a producer, and I had the songs. I think my own record would have surprised a lot of people, because it was basically pop music with guitar-blues guitar or rock guitar, whatever you want to call it. I'm going to be 30 years old in a couple of months, and that's where I am in my life. I would've been very happy going ahead with that project. Creatively, it was very fulfilling after 10 years of being in other people's bands. So I really had to ask myself, "Do I want to give this up and join Def Leppard?" Had it been any other band I wouldn't have done it. A lot of people say to me, "I bet you're real happy you scored this Def Leppard gig," implying I'm real happy because I'm going to earn a lot of money. But money has never been my prime motivation for doing anything in life. Musical fulfillment is the main thing for me. The fact that Def Leppard is probably the most successful rock band on the planet is just gravy.